Von: fpbstra@club-internet.fr (Francis BUSSER) Datum: 11.07.98, 01:11:01 Betreff: NAMESmare Ce message est en plusieurs parties sous format MIME. --------------788A3EAA6612 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by front5.grolier.fr id BAA20235 Dear all, I have not confessed all the truth about the genealogical nightmare with our names, here in western Europe.=20 If you read Bob's communication, you remark the given name 'Stoffel'. This is an Alemannic and especially Swiss nickname for the christian name 'Christoff' (English : Christofer).=20 The names 'Richardis' and 'Bartholomaeus' are neither German nor French, but Latin. Altought Horburg (=3DHorbourg in French) was officially Protestant, the latin baptismal names let expect a Catholic family. Around 1560, Geneva was the Calvinistic Rome and Catholics where persecuted. Perhaps is this why 'Stoffel' married in Alsace ('Jacobe' is also Latin) and in his baptismal record, I expect you can read 'Christophorus', 'Xphorus' or 'Xtophorus' (two abreviations for 'Christophorus'). But don't think someone has never called the young couple 'Richardis' and 'Bartholomaeus'. She was perhaps her husband's 'Ricki', 'Ricka' or 'Rickele'. Not only for his wife, he was 'Bartel', 'Bartli', 'B=E4chtle', 'B=E4rsche', 'B=E4rtschi', 'Beertschi', 'B=E4rti' or 'Bartsch'. In offici= al document I expect we find 'Ricarda' or 'Richarda' in German, 'Richarde' in French (but Alsace was not French at this time) and 'Barthelme' or 'Bartelme' in German, 'Barth=E9l=E9my' in French. Do you need an aspirin = ? As you see, each time we translate names, we gain from mist to fog.=20 John Niefer could make his communication in the present. We still like to tack nicknames to people, but not only to distinguish them from others with the same surname : often it is for fun alone.=20 In a village near Colmar, we have a Meyer family, a very common surname in Alsace, but the only one in this village. As this Meyer has several times build annexes to his farmhouse, he is known as the 'Sewe D=E4chle Meyer' (German : 'Sieben D=E4chlein Meyer', English : 'Meyer with seven roofs'). Another Meyer was many years ago innkeeper 'Zum Ochsen' and always the 'Ochsen Meyer'. A Staub has painted his house in red and so became the 'Rot Staub' (the 'Red Staub'). If you find in documents indication such as 'genannt' (German), 'dit' (French) or 'dictus' (Latin) you have examples of officialized nicknames.=20 On an other side, in a old document (Aargauer Urkunden, Bd IV, N=B0 57) about one of my ancestors, I find a 700 years old example (1288) of a nickname : " Rudolf Von Bus, den man Sprichet 'usser Walde' ..." (modern German : " Rudolf von Bus, genannt 'aus dem Wald' ...") (French : " Rudolf de Bus, dit 'des bois' ...") (English : " Rudolf from Bus, said 'out of the wood' ...") In this document 'von Bus' and 'usser Walde' are utilized as synonyms. Another aspirin ?=20 To survive in this confusion and to make serious genealogy and not fantasy, you need in all things greatest accuracy. It is absolutely necessary to note and verify all the smallest details, to never alterate or translate names, to respect strictly the variable spellings, accents and Umlauts. Take care also to communicate 8 bits and to use an international ISO alphabet. You understand now why I don't make genealogical researches myself...=20 Remember also, I supply the headaches, but not the aspirin. I cannot help in strictly genealogical questions. About aspirin, do you know what is more effective as an aspirin ? (*) Good nightmares, good headaches ! Francis Busser (the sadist from Strasbourg in Alsace, France) (*) two aspirins ... --------------788A3EAA6612 Received: from fp-1.rootsweb.com (fp-1.rootsweb.com [207.113.233.233]) by mailhost.club-internet.fr (8.8.8/MGC-970630-No_Relay) with ESMTP id QAA20321 for ; Fri, 10 Jul 1998 16:39:22 +0200 (MET DST) Received: (from slist@localhost) by fp-1.rootsweb.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id HAA12314; Fri, 10 Jul 1998 07:39:19 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Fri, 10 Jul 1998 07:39:19 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <35A62481.43C2@freewwweb.com> Date: Fri, 10 Jul 1998 09:26:09 -0500 From: Bob & Mary Ann Pfennig Reply-To: robertpf@freewwweb.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 Old-To: SWITZERLAND-L@rootsweb.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: [SWITZERLAND-L] REINER FROM GENEVA Resent-Message-ID: <"4jRl4C.A.8_C.Qeip1"@fp-1.rootsweb.com> To: SWITZERLAND-L@rootsweb.com Resent-From: SWITZERLAND-L@rootsweb.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2238 X-Loop: SWITZERLAND-L@rootsweb.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SWITZERLAND-L-request@rootsweb.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I have a Stoffel REINER who was born in Geneva probably around 1560. He married a Jacobe ? on 9 July 1581 in Horbourg, Alsace. They had a daughter name Richardis REINER who married Bartholomaeus WETZEL of Horbourg on 5 Sept 1608 in Harbourg. If you have any info on this family, please contact me. Thanks, Bob Pfennig in New Braunfels, TX wo das Leben schoen ist! ==== SWITZERLAND Mailing List ==== Genealogy in French-speaking Switzerland http://www.unige.ch/biblio/ses/jla/gen/swiss-e.html --------------788A3EAA6612 Received: from fp-1.rootsweb.com (fp-1.rootsweb.com [207.113.233.233]) by mailhost.club-internet.fr (8.8.8/MGC-970630-No_Relay) with ESMTP id SAA28456 for ; Fri, 10 Jul 1998 18:51:02 +0200 (MET DST) Received: (from slist@localhost) by fp-1.rootsweb.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id JAA15101; Fri, 10 Jul 1998 09:50:49 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Fri, 10 Jul 1998 09:50:49 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 10 Jul 1998 12:58:47 -0400 Message-Id: <199807101658.MAA03113@mail.wincom.net> X-Sender: nieferjo@netcore.ca X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Old-To: BADEN-WURTTEMBERG-L@rootsweb.com From: john niefer Subject: Re: MIDDLE names Resent-Message-ID: <"StZuF.A.yeD.JZkp1"@fp-1.rootsweb.com> To: BADEN-WURTTEMBERG-L@rootsweb.com Resent-From: BADEN-WURTTEMBERG-L@rootsweb.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3183 X-Loop: BADEN-WURTTEMBERG-L@rootsweb.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: BADEN-WURTTEMBERG-L-request@rootsweb.com >Francis and Dianne wrote,,,, > >Thank you for the discussion on naming patterns - it was a helpful >summary. I didn't know about the custom of using different names at >work and home. To add to the confusion, the nightmares also include surnames at times, at least with East European Germans. They liked to tack nicknames to people to distinguish them from others with the same surname . Example, Michael Wurtz my "Pat" = Godfather, practiced a cottage industry of making felt hats along with his agriculture. Consequently he was known as "Hutner Michael". Many people in the same community would not have a clue as to who Wurtz Michael might be. There are quite a number of similar occurances so in corresponding about families, it always helps to include the occupation if it's known. > my own surname of HETTRICK comes from my German family >who possibly came from Hesse-Darmstadt and I don't even know what the >original German name was! It's likely it ended with a CH rather than a CK. Regards,, John Searching, Arzt / Bauerle / Clement / Mayer / Niefer / Renner / Weber / Wurtz / Wallrabenstein --------------788A3EAA6612--